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  1. #1

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    USA Flag bail out systems

    Rumor has it that it will be required that all members have a bail out system by June 2009 and they will be doing spot checks to make sure. Can anyone confirm?

  2. #2
    4 Truck wstendtrking
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    ==============It ain't easy being green.==============

  3. #3

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckie666 View Post
    Rumor has it that it will be required that all members have a bail out system by June 2009 and they will be doing spot checks to make sure. Can anyone confirm?

    There seems to be a lot of discussion regarding the PSS in my company,here on the rant,and on the FDNY rant.
    In my Company,members believe that you are required to be "rope qualified" to remain Class A F/Fs.This seemed like a "radical" idea even for the progressive Nassau County Fire Service.Consequently.I decided to educate myself and not just listen to "opinions and to read the legislation.

    Long story Short.

    Municipalities must provide PPS and training.

    Firefighters do not have to take training and accept the equipment.

    READ THE LAW


    Does not address any issue regarding class of firefighter.


    Chief must evaluate Risk Vs. Advantage.
    FDNY F/F (not a probie)fell out of a four -story window during training on their new PPS.
    How many firefighters do you know in Nassau that got seriously injured bailing out of a window without a rope?

    It seems as there is more serious risk in training all VOLUNTEER F/F in system than the potential of saving lives.

  4. #4
    Rant Moderator LAD42DER
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    CATMAN------"It seems as there is more serious risk in training all VOLUNTEER F/F in system than the potential of saving lives.[/quote]

    1- like previously stated there is a thread on this already and

    2- are you serious with that more serious risk in training than the potential to save a life............. so one life is worth what a bruise that you may get on your arm in training. if you are proplery training someone (not paying attention to other things going on) then no one should be serioulsy hurt in training. it is a different story in real life. but to say that is ridiculous. and if you dont take the training and you dont want a system then i hope the IC or Chief of Dept has a nice spot for you to run and get coffee b/c by "law" if you plan on going to the 2nd story of a private dwelling you better have a system or sog to get members out of trouble oh and to be trained on it by someone who has working knowledge in that area.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Quote Originally Posted by LAD42DER View Post
    CATMAN------"It seems as there is more serious risk in training all VOLUNTEER F/F in system than the potential of saving lives.
    1- like previously stated there is a thread on this already and

    2- are you serious with that more serious risk in training than the potential to save a life............. so one life is worth what a bruise that you may get on your arm in training. if you are proplery training someone (not paying attention to other things going on) then no one should be serioulsy hurt in training. it is a different story in real life. but to say that is ridiculous. and if you dont take the training and you dont want a system then i hope the IC or Chief of Dept has a nice spot for you to run and get coffee b/c by "law" if you plan on going to the 2nd story of a private dwelling you better have a system or sog to get members out of trouble oh and to be trained on it by someone who has working knowledge in that area.[/quote]

    I refer you back to my original post: READ THE ACTUAL LAW

  6. #6
    Artie Lopez 10/12/2012 ESU2422
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman View Post
    How many firefighters do you know in Nassau that got seriously injured bailing out of a window without a rope?

    It seems as there is more serious risk in training all VOLUNTEER F/F in system than the potential of saving lives.

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  7. #7
    Rant Moderator LAD42DER
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    read the law looking for the part that says THERE IS A MORE SERIOUS RISK OF GETTING VOLUNTEERS HURT IN TRAINING SO WE SHOULDNT GET A SYSTEM B/C THE RISK OF GETTING HURT IN TRAINING IS MORE THEN THE CHANCE OF SOMEONE ACTUALLY BAILING OUT A WINDOW.......

    jmo but that is a bold statement from a volunteer firefighter
    Last edited by LAD42DER; 02-05-2009 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #8
    THEengineman54
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    that is a really bold statement...just to throw out my opinion seeing as how everyone else here is. how can you really say that we shouldn't get a system because the odds of getting hurt while training is higher than not? that's almost as (and pardon the aggression here) dumb as saying we shouldn't go driver training because you might get into an accident which is an increase in risk over keeping the rig in the barn. or we shouldn't train on how to use extrication equipment because we might get hurt in training. use some common sense man. if you have the opportunity to get a system GET ONE because it's kind of like the mutual aid debate. it's better to have and not use than to need and not have. and just to throw this other tidbit out there my department has a system in service and we've all been trained on it and oddly enough no one has died or been injured (other than minor bumps and bruises that are commonplace). granted when we decided to get it there were some reservations but after recieving the training and becoming comfortable with it it's another great tool that we're all fortunate to have. that is all

  9. #9

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Quote Originally Posted by LAD42DER View Post
    read the law looking for the part that says THERE IS A MORE SERIOUS RISK OF GETTING VOLUNTEERS HURT IN TRAINING SO WE SHOULDNT GET A SYSTEM B/C THE RISK OF GETTING HURT IN TRAINING IS MORE THEN THE CHANCE OF SOMEONE ACTUALLY BAILING OUT A WINDOW.......

    jmo but that is a bold statement from a volunteer firefighter

    Do you have something against volunteer F/F? Aren't you one?

  10. #10
    Rant Moderator LAD42DER
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    i have none and i dont think engineman does either but to say what you did and i know that this is off topic is bold.... for career or vounteer. to say that members will be hurt in training so we shouldnt get them in your Risk vs. reward. it is another tool for the tool box and is law right now. this thread should be merged with the legislation thread but if you have a member jump from a second floor window TODAY and your dept didnt have a plan or a system in place your dept will be penalized. spot checks start june 1 09 . but to say we may be hurt in training so we should not get them for the safety of our members is a bad statement to make as a firefighter career/volunteer. the same injuries goes for practicing roof rope rescues, high angle rescues, confined space rescues so we shouldnt practice them b/c we may NEVER have to do it in our career as a volly. I guarentee you go to more fires every year here in nassau county then you do any of the above that i mentioned. you can have a potential to get jammed up making a move past, working above, or simply a member took a window at a bad time and you are now caught and it is go time so if i got some bumps and bruises in training it was worth it to have the rope strapped to my harness to save my life. like i said jmo

    and if this can be merged into the other thread think it should be since it is on the same pace.

  11. #11
    Handsome Guy DropTheBox
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    The bail out bags we have at work are a pain in the ass. They are bulky, get in the way, and just add to the weight we already have. That being said, I would not give mine up for ANYTHING. My battalion is where those guys had to jump in the Bronx, I have seen them after the fact. I will take my chances with an injury from training than the chance of needing that rope and not having it. A fall from the 2nd floor of a house can be fatal if you fall the wrong way. If your burning, your going. Why would you not want something that could save your ass?
    My tone is a direct reflection of your attitude.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    If you are saying that you would take the time to set up a rope, anchor it to a structural point, tie it off , wrap it around your self , as your are being cooked by gases and fire, welll I think id say, " When life hands you a rope, F--k the rope and jump."

  13. #13

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    I just trained on this unit and all I can say is Wow.

    http://www.deusrescue.com/docs/3000/3000Series.pdf


    This works. It's a little bulky but for the most part it's out of the way and ready to use. I don't want to have to find a place to tie a rope to. But with this there is no looking for a place to tie it off to. It has a lite weight hook that you can grab the window sill and just roll out. Before any knocks it just give it a try. Just my opinion.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Three Yonkers FF jumped from a third story today; one died.

  15. #15
    Rant Moderator LAD42DER
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    first nice first post. just jump... glad you have taken some firefighter survival or basic firefighting courses to know your options before jumping if you dont have a rope. but anyway on a serious note as underthedome said yes 3 firefighters from yonkers did jump from a window and one tragically lost his life. .. firefighters are put in a dangerous situation enough, sometimes they get into a spot and need to bail. there are many systems out there what you or your dept choose is up to them but to say we dont have the money to outfit a firefighter is a lie.... thats jmo. rest in peace patrick joyce

  16. #16

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    We have the FRED (firefighter rescue escape device) in Lynbrook on all of our 45min masks. I must say its not too bad, attaches to the waist buckle of your SCBA, actually becomes the buckle, and is very easily and rapidly deployed. We train on it regularly, very easy to use and effective. It's made by RIT systems.

    RIT Rescue & Escape Systems
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  17. #17

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    who are the lucky souls that get the 45's???

  18. #18
    Handsome Guy DropTheBox
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Agrivas,

    The system we use at my job can be tied off, though the most probable way would be pulling the hook from your belt, hooking to the windowsill, and going. All in all if your familiar with the system (which you should be if you train with it) it takes about 2-5 seconds. And based on my personal experience with "just jumping", yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
    My tone is a direct reflection of your attitude.

  19. #19
    Emfd1102
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    I've tested the system from RIT and one thing I noticed is that you cannot convert the SCBA into a harness......the waist strap is too short. Just an observation.
    Luck doesn't last forever, keep training.

  20. #20
    Handsome Guy DropTheBox
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    You mean as a FF removal harness? If not then that is definitely a good observation, and hopefully guys have been pro active to substitute something in its place. 20-25 feet of webbing tied with a water knot into one continuous loop, tucked into an unused glove is one way to rectify that. Good looking out Emfd.
    My tone is a direct reflection of your attitude.

  21. #21
    WFD*SOC
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    or a DRD in the coat.
    Sweat hard in training......Bleed less in battle.

  22. #22

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    Default Re: bail out systems

    Quote Originally Posted by WFD*SOC View Post
    or a DRD in the coat.
    Until you have to lift a FF vertically, like going up the stairs.
    When the experts panic, they call the fire department

    SAY NO TO GRENADES!

  23. #23
    Emfd1102
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    That's right, you can't get the waist strap between the legs and back up...it's too short. The drag device in the coat is great for horizontal pull but you can't lift with it.
    Also one thing to watch out for with the drag device......any time you have your gear washed make sure the device is properly set up afterwards. When you seperate the outer shell from the liner the device stays attached to the shell but if you don't put the arms of the liner through the loops on the device it will simply pull out of the shell when you pull on it.
    Luck doesn't last forever, keep training.

  24. #24
    Rant Moderator LAD42DER
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    drd are supposed to be removed when washing the gear. read manufacturer recommendation on that.

  25. #25
    Emfd1102
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    Default Re: bail out systems

    I know the drd is to come out for washing, what I'm say is that when you put the gear back together you need to make sure the loops on the drd go around the sleeves of the liner otherwise when you pull the drd to drag the firefighter it will just pull out of the coat. The sleeves of the liner being through the loops of the drd is what makes the system work.
    Luck doesn't last forever, keep training.

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